I’m a fan of Set, as long-time readers of this Tumblr have probably guessed, but I think I might also be a little bit of a fan of Apophis. I figure that when it’s time for the universe to be broken down and remade from scratch, someone’s got to take out the trash. So like Set, Apophis has a role to play in the cosmic machinery; in fac, without him, we wouldn’t be here now. (I have a bunch of reading to do, so this idea is subject to change.)
While I’m saying something a bit controversial, let me add that it did my bitter soul good to Block a call-out blog. (I won’t call it a “social justice” blog, because social justice is never the goal of these things.) Being followed by such a blog is a direct threat: we’re monitoring you and we will punish you if we decide you’ve transgressed. The heck with you.
But he’s literally the killer of the gods. It’s your practice but I’m just confused how can you put the two together
I really hate to step in on this, but this is a very dangerous idea you’re considering and the points you’re making don’t align with canon.
a/p/e/pdoesnt do anything to help us.a/p/e/pdoesnt take out the trash, it IS the trash.and the notion that we wouldnt be here now within it is quite opposite of what’s been established.
a/p/e/pis trying to bring us back to nonexistence through misery, unjust violence, and self-destruction. it doesnt want to help you. it wants you dead, it wants your sweet pets dead, it wants us all dead. and not just dead, but nonexistent.the type of destruction
a/p/e/pbrings are things like ruining the lives of the innocent, breaking hearts, and acts of bigotry.a/p/e/pis what drives so many of us to suicide.a/p/e/pis whats killed so many innocent people at the hands of racists, homophobes, transphobes, islamphobes, antisemetics, nazis, ableists, etc., etc., etc..
a/p/e/pdoes not care about you. its only motivation is to destroy everything we know and love and keep it that way.i understand that i sound harsh but i do so out of concern for your safety and the safety of others. if you welcome this entity into your life you will suffer.
From a Kemetic point of view, of course, what I’m saying is strange and probably (and I apologise) offensive. However, I’m not Kemetic; I’m Wiccan, and I suspect this is the source of a sneaking acceptance of Apophis and his role in remaking the universe. In Wicca, death, destruction, and decay all have a natural and sacred role, and are not identical with evil; their personifications, as the Dark God and the Crone, are welcomed, not execrated.
Serious question – are there controversies within Kemeticism over whether Set should be accepted? He seems popular with modern worshippers, and yet was pretty much The Devil for part of Egypt’s religious history.
not trying to sound rude but you didn’t seem to get what we were saying. it has no role in remaking the universe. it wants the universe undone, to have never existed. it wants the end of all things and regardless of your personal religion, to welcome it is to welcome an undoubtedly evil force. there is no philosophy of death or decay to be considered here. it is a horrible force, period. not just from a kemetic point of view. there are just some entities you do not mess with.
set is accepted. He in no way compares to that horrific beast and we know His role.
Also like, Set slays apep and is more a god of necessary chaos. Think a cooling storm after a 40c day.
Would it be fair to say, then, that the Kemetic Orthodox religion, or Kemeticism in general, is based on the religious thought of a particular time and place in Ancient Egypt, or a particular strand of religious thought, one in which Set was integrated rather than execrated as the enemy of the cosmos? That would have implications for how other gods are viewed and worshipped (and perhaps for You-Know-Who, but on that point, I shall say no more and do my homework :).
correct me if i’m wrong, but if you’re referring to the villianization of Set, that has a hold in the conquering by the Hyksos, whose forced rulers twisted Sutekh into something He has never been. in spite of the Hyksos, Set was defamed, and that is where i believe you’re getting your opinion of Him. a/p/e/p is pure, unbridled evil, and Set is actually (in most cases, the only, but others, one of few) capable of destroying it. this is a god that guards the solar barque and should not be treated as any particular evil, in light of the downfall He faced when Hyksos rulers used His name to injure Egypt. there is no comparison between Him and the beast.
Here I think you’re mistaken; the execration of Set belongs to the Ptolemaic / Roman era, long after the Hyksos. I think you’re thinking of how Set became a god of foreigners, and thus enemies in general, once he was identified with the foreign god Baal. (I’m speaking off the top of my head here.) It does seem as though modern Kemeticism has chosen a particular version of Set to worship, one version of a deity worshipped in thousands of places over thousands of years. There’s nothing wrong with that, of course, I’m just noting it – it’s possible to imagine a different Kemeticism in which Set was entirely villainous and excluded, and a different Kemeticism again in which Set was the chief deity, all based on Ancient sources.
Hmm, I’d say with the a/pep thing, any of the positives of chaos are associated with Set. A/pep is solely the negative destructive forces that seem to unbalance and destroy the universe. The wyrm has no redeeming qualities. The wyrm doesn’t help with remaking the universe and it seeks only to destroy. But others have pointed that out.
Regarding Set, I was under the impression that he started to become villianified when the cult of Osiris rose in popularity, which while I can’t recall exactly when that came to prominence, it was definitely preptolemaic and I’m fairly certain it was before the Hyksos invasions as well, but I could be wrong. (I’m thinking of Abydos being a cult center for Osiris and that site going back pretty far. Not sure off the top of my head on that timeline.)
I think even if Set were considered a villian by modern kemetics, we’d still recognize the necessity of the chaos that he brings, and the role that he plays in protecting Ra. If there is “bad guy” to admire and to provide balance, it would be Set, never a/pep.
Oh, and to answer the question of whether kemeticism is based on a particular time and place in AE, I would say most modern practitioners draw from kinda the whole thing. Bits from this period, bits from that period, depending on the practitioner, the gods they work most closely with, and the information available on those deities.
To answer your question about Set: depends on the practitioner. But I think you may be mistaking not wanting Set to be seen as the devil as simultaneously not understanding that historically, there were times that Set was villified.
This attitude may exist, but more often I see people who acknowledge that Set’s place in the pantheon fluctuated throughout the years. The opposition I see to Set as devil commentaries is based on the fact that the people equating Set to Satan are also shoving Ancient Egyptian beliefs and worldviews into Christian ones (an inappropriate comparison on many levels), while also demonizing depictions of Set in the modern day.
This same impulse to compare every mythology to Christian beliefs, regardless of whether or not it’s actually a comparison that works at all, drives people to compare Osiris to Jesus- and anyone who has read Osiris’ mythology knows that this just isn’t a good parallel to draw at all.
Many modern day practitioners do something that, in my personal opinion, is a wise option: know that Set can be both the enemy (against Heru, against people, etc) and the hero (the slayer of a/pep, the guard of the day barque). He is a complex god and chaos itself is rarely if ever pretty. I think Set is done the most justice when his various facets are talked about and respected.
As for a/pep, I agree with the other commentors. To quote thetwistedrope, it’s hard to imagine something as complete as unexistence, simply because our entire lives are based on the opposite of it. A/pep literally seeks to uncreate all of existence- the gods, our lives, everything. He has no redeeming qualities, he is not the misunderstood puppy or the 2edgy4u god waiting to be worshipped. The gods face him, according to the mythology, every day.
Also, to briefly address your (in my opinion, unfair and brash) comment about the KC blog: having a public blog, and followers, by its very nature means you’re being “monitored”. People judge, harshly, fairly, or positively depending on your conduct and your words.
Part of life is learning that sometimes there are consequences to your words- whether those words are written or spoken. This can come from a call-out blog, it can also come from a person who follows you and disagrees with what you say.
In Kemeticism, one important belief is that words are extremely strong and powerful, and can have wide-ranging and almost unbelievable consequences: from literally being the cause of creation in at least one myth, to purifying oneself, to giving one the healing prowess of Sekhmet, and on.
If you do not wish to be faced with the reality that a public blog can mean friendship as much as it can mean censure, then I suggest writing in a diary.
And I’m honestly being sincere and not trying to be rude, I’ve had my words come back to bite me in the past and it was an extremely hard learning experience.
Going back to your earlier point: “
In Wicca, death, destruction, and decay all have a natural and sacred role, and are not identical with evil; their personifications, as the Dark God and the Crone, are welcomed, not execrated.
“
We do have that, but that role is filled by Wesir/Osiris. Wesir is the Lord of the Dead, who has died himself. The rotting of his own flesh fills the Nile with nutrients that bring life to the farms that feed the people. Yinepu/Anubis cares for the dead and aids them in entering their new life after death. Cycles of death and renewal are very much present in Kemeticism.
There is nothing anywhere that indicates that the snake is even slightly interested in “renewing” the Universe after he destroys it. He wants it to stay destroyed, forever. He is the constant creep of entropy that will one day suck all the heat out of every star in the Universe leaving only a cold and empty expanse of nothingness. He would be the god of nihilists, probably. If they bothered to have gods. Of course I don’t think even they really want everything gone.
You-Know-Who
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